states suddenly is that the muslim community in the united states was thought to have been for a long time a very moderate, reasonable community. but now it's increasingly becoming radicalized according to national security experts in part because we've been at war for eight, nine years now in afghanistan and iraq. chris: and probably the result of eight years since 9-11, all this time of us fighting the muslims in the world. >> right. >> i think that we've been deluded by the bottom line good news here. the real good news is that when al qaeda actually tries to control a territory, like anbar province in iraq, average muslims don't like it. they don't like that style of life. they don't like the extremism. >> exactly. >> but it doesn't take very many people to cause a whole lot of trouble. chris: you said a couple thousand al qaeda out there probably. >> right. and the other thing is -- as to what joe said, national security experts estimate there is -- well, there's 28 to 30 known attacks that have been foiled against the united states. since 9-11. those are the ones we know about.